Curse

Ninna · Jan 09, 2007, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by AiLLUSION

on 3million gw copies sold.. 95% of those are probably returning players who buy all 3 campigns. If you look at the new comers into the game, there are very little. And with the growing dissatisfaction of current players, players number will only drop more and more each chapter.

the 3 million sales shows the game *is not dieing* however you want to look at it

further showing GW vitality,
the amount of people putting in gametime during Wintersday (01/2007 PR)

Marco1983 · Jan 09, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by AiLLUSION

Ah I remember when I was that naive, gw pve is a joke... come on any decent player could beat it in 2-5 days max.

A mmorpg with pve content that can be finished in 1 week or less is just badly made.

GW is PVP based, thats why there hasnt been an storage upgrade ever since prophecies. You can keep making petitions, but what does anet do about it?

PVP was the only thing good about gw and anet goes about ruining that too with Hero ascent, and the lack of unbalanced skill updates. Did the nf team even test the skills before release?

Here is something people might want to consider, 1 chapter every month for 50$, so 2 chapter every year = 100$...That is NO different from paying monthly for a better and more well designed mmorpg. Nf has just barely been released and numerous people have been bored cause of the lack of content. People will only play gw to an extent where they feel the game is lacking and move on to another game, and the way gw is progressing right now I would be surprised it doesnt make it to ch6.

And to answer the statement above on 3million gw copies sold.. 95% of those are probably returning players who buy all 3 campigns. If you look at the new comers into the game, there are very little. And with the growing dissatisfaction of current players, players number will only drop more and more each chapter.

Most MMORPG's rely on the very same shitty concept: Level character, do mission 1, level character some more, do mission 2, and so on. The steps between these fases are usually so long that people are going to talk about the 'grind' concept. Guild Wars has a whole other concept, so don't even try to put it next to World of Warcraft or something similair.

I suggest you go out and play some Final Fantasy XI Online if you like a very long PvE game... As much as i played and liked that game, i really hate to say that the story mode in missions and quests doesn't even come close to Guild Wars! Especially the quest part is just plain awful... Great community though, very great, and the best of all online games i played!!

Most MMORPG's are just typical 'kill, kill, kill, and kill some more untill i level to whatever, and i think that i am the 1337 because of my ultra high level and holy weapons' games. Guild Wars aint that! PvE aint, and PvP also isn't. It's about you, and your human, or computerised teammates. And as far as i am concerned, the PvE mode has more than enough content! Also, a lot of other MMO's have the usual monthly fee's, and you need to pay another €30/40/50 for the aditional expansion packs. Lastly, they do mostly NOT have such a fine development team that actually listens to most of the suggestions being made concidered gameplay improvements, and do NOT have such large FREE content updates like for example 'Sorrows Furnace'.

freekedoutfish · Jan 09, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by AiLLUSION

Ah I remember when I was that naive, gw pve is a joke... come on any decent player could beat it in 2-5 days max.

A mmorpg with pve content that can be finished in 1 week or less is just badly made.

Whats your point? so what if a campaign can be finished in just a short amount of time? Any game whether it be on pc, xbox, ps, online or offline can be completed in a short amount time.

Does that mean it doesnt have replayability? No.

GWs is the one of the few games ive ever played that kept me coming back and back for more. Once youve completed the pve main storyline, you have countless other things to do. Titles, weapons, armor, exploration, heroes to equip.

And then another 6 or 7 professions to play through.

PvP is not the main aspect and only aspect of GWs. Your arrogant to suggest it is, and your arrogant to suggest that an online MMO cannnot have a PvE aspect. PvP and PvE are just as important as the other.

GWs is great because it caters for both sides. But if you dont like PvE in an online game, then dont play it, no ones forcing you too. But just because you dont find PvE enjoyable doesnt mean others dont too.

Obviously myself and countless others DO like PvE and we DO see it as the main part of the game. Does that mean the whole PvP side of it is pointless and should be removed, just because myself and others dont play it? No ofcourse not.

But by what your saying, are you suggesting that WoW or FF or SWO or any other MMO online dont have a PvE side to it? Ofcourse they do and they thrive and pull in loads of money.

If you want a purely PvP game, then go play unreal and frag someone to death continually. I dont get why your playing GWs if you dont like an RPG side to things.

SpeedyKQ · Jan 09, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I haven't seen any numbers or evidence to suggest that GW is dying. And I'm happy the dev's are pushing themselves to give us new content every six months, because I like new content.

As a player, I absolutely hate micropayments. Everyone frowns on using E-bay gold to buy Fissure armor - and for good reason - it cheapens the efforts of those who actually earned it. But what if somebody pays five bucks to Anet for the collector's edition, saves themselves 100k on hero weapons, and puts that savings towards Fissure armor? Is there really any difference?

If I had to choose between micropayments and GW dying, I'd choose micropayments, but this really seems like a false premise to me.

luinks · Jan 09, 2007, 03:14 PM // 15:14

micropayments are a good idea to sustain GW, but I won't buy another thing for my account knowing how thin security ncsoft website and the client itself have

Marco1983 · Jan 09, 2007, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Especially Final Fantasy XI Online is PvE based. I played it for approx 500 hours in total, but never ever saw any PvP content that i could do. PvP content is more of a hidden aspect in this game. Almost all is PvE based. The in-game community is what saves this game the most in my opinion. The game has just an awful grind aspect to it, that gets very depressing in the end. Also you need tons of time to do anything in the game, especially traveling on foot or Chocobo is a time consuming concept. It's completely party based, and you can do absolutely nothing alone unless youre a Thief/Ninja with exeptionally super skills. Quests and missions also don't come even close to the way it's done in Guild Wars. Overall it's a good game, but some of the main things are very badly designed. The game was mainly based on the hardcore MMO players. And MMORPG's in general are mostly pretty for the hardcore audience.

Guild Wars however delivers something for everyone! It has the best known PvP concept in any MMORPG, and the PvE content is quite a lot. And you can enjoy it wether you are an elite player, or just a player who plays the game every once in a while. Thereby, every game has it's ends in gameplay options. Even World of Warcraft players are complaining about the lack of endgame options... As what i have heard, the only thing to do at endgame is doing raids and such. And i certainly know that Guild Wars has a LOT of endgame content! FoW, UW, PvP (which really has endless replay value), Domain of Anguish, The Deep, Urgoz's Warren, Sorrow's Furnace, Ruins of the Tomb of the Primeval Kings, Guilds, Master quests, etc etc etc...

As far i am concerned, there is more then enough to do in the Guild Wars PvE mode, after you worked yourself through all of the missions, quests, etc. And concidered it's a game without the monthly fee's, i think it's absolutely fantastic!

Titan Chrae · Jan 09, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by AiLLUSION

And to answer the statement above on 3million gw copies sold.. 95% of those are probably returning players who buy all 3 campigns. If you look at the new comers into the game, there are very little. And with the growing dissatisfaction of current players, players number will only drop more and more each chapter.

Prophecies sold 1 million copies, 2 million units sold was announced during Factions and sales just hit 3 million sales after the release of NF.

Now...I agree that a large percentage of sales are repeat customers but, even with some attrition, new players are being introduced. I don't see this as a sign that GW is failing and numbers are dropping. Quite the contrary. It appears to me that GW is growing and picking up pace. The 3 million mark was hit much earlier in the life cycle of NF then the 2 million mark was in Factions which was hit faster than the 1 million mark in Prophecies.

If the trend continues then I suspect eventually the number will look like x+1 million users will occur on x release. Growth Looks healthy to me.

As far as micro payments are concerned. I have no problem with the options that hav ebeen so far introduced. PvP unlock packs provide a way for new players to become competitive in PvP before they get discouraged and are turned off from GW entirely. Offereing a special skin already in the game doesn't hurt anyone and provides no advantage in PvE.

I don't care if they offer different faces and hair as a micropayment option. That won't affect gameplay in the slightest. What I would not like to see is a micropayment for storage option or micropay for keybinding option. Those would provide unfair advantage to gamers with cash. ANET seems to have a their finger on the pulse of the community and have handled micropayments fairly to date. I suspect that will continue.

Sharn-Mes · Jan 09, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPO Bot

So GW is dieing? You can say that of a perfectly healty newborn baby too if you really want.

Seriously folks, if this game makes you somehow unhappy, leave and stop trying to convince me that my favorite game is ,in fact, terrible.

YES! This is the first intelligent post in this thread. VERY well said!

It get boring REAL fast to hear ppl excessive whining about one of the best online games out there! If you dont like it QUIT for crying out loud so the rest of us doesnt have to LISTEN TO YOU ANYMORE!

If GW is dying I blame YOU for killing it! (but its not so I for one is NOT worried...)

Str0b0 · Jan 09, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

I see discussions like this all the time and frankly they still amaze me. Ok so a few PvP guilds or teams are trying another game. That hardly constitutes the mass exodus the OP seems to be implying. Again this is a discussion fueled by internet rumors and gossip not by hard data. You show me numbers for this so called exodus versus the actual player base of the game and I'll be impressed if they represent a significant portion of the population. Even if all the OP's suppositions are true they have little if anything to do with the business model.

Let us examine the points made in the original post which the OP maintains are responsible for this so called exodus. First the point of expansions, new skills, unfairness to PvP and the obvious effectiveness of some builds versus others. Ok I'll address the expansions and their companion skills. This is not a problem with the business model but the player base. You get a shiny new toy and everyone wants to play with the shiney new toy instead of the old one, this leads to the toy being used more and thus you see it more often which no doubt gives the illusion that it is more effective, however I doubt this is really the case. I would be willing to bet that a close examination of past chapter skills would reveal counters to any of the new "unfair" skills of the expanasions. As for your point on builds I'm sorry what games have you been playing for the past few years? Almost any game like Guild Wars will have certain builds that just plain work. It's a fact. Certain skills synergize better with others. It is impossible, and stupid for that matter, to make all skills equal in utility. It's like playing paper, rock, scissors and you and your opponent always throwing rock. some skills are better than others, some skills work better with other skills and some combinations of skills are simply better at dealing damage, healing, or whatever the task may be than any random assortment of skills you can throw together. These are all just factors of the game and not ANet's business model. In fact these are pretty much facts of life in about any game. Go to the much vaunted WoW and you'll find out quickly that the same "issues" exist there. Some builds work better than others, some skills are better than others, people with TBC have neater stuff than people without.

Now to address Anet's staff situation. Believe it or not a lot of software companies do that, not just Anet. You have development teams and while one team is working on the newest, brightest and next best thing the others are working on patches, fixes and bugs. Let us say you purchase Adobe Photoshop. Ok you bought it, installed it and now it's yours with no monthly fees. Adobe still maintains staff to patch, and update that software even though it isn't "making money". There will always be sales of it here and there that's just a fact and if you think that no one is buying Prophecies anymore or that no one is buying Factions(well maybe Factions) then you are deluding yourself. Those games still sell, not as much as they did in their initial release but they still sell. They count on the initial release sales to pay most of the bills then use the trickle sales afterwards to make up the rest.

In summation, any so called "exodus" cannot be rightfully attributed to Anet, or it's business model. It is even doubtful that the "exodus" itself is even as big a deal as the OP makes it out to be. In fact there is an utter lack of evidence for any "exodus" aside from internet rumors and gossip which is hardly a Neilson poll. All the "issues" that the OP claims are reasons for this "exodus" are in fact simple facts of life in the software industry and in particular online games such as GuildWars and even the much vaunted WoW. In my opinion this is just someone who heard a rumor and got a little over excited about it. Perhaps if some hard data could be provided to back up the claim of this "exodus" then it might be a bit more compelling, but as of right now I remain utterly unconvinced.

birdfoot · Jan 09, 2007, 04:16 PM // 16:16

I haven't given much thought to the ideas (at the end of the post) that OP brought up but this is an interesting read. Micro-payments do seem to be a nice way to help ANet sustain the business; after all, players do have an option to buy or not buy, ANet is also helping to facilitate more options to the game. The business model that ANet is using definitely tends to feel restrictive since they earn a 1 time profit only from sales and they definitely need to balance out on budget, development and other server maintenance neccessities.

Development requires costs to justify and this also relates to server maintenance, etc. Micro-payment looks like another avenue to which ANet can get revenue to support continued efforts instead of just relying on selling the regular chapters. As for whether GW is dying, I simply do not know. But as a GW player, I definitely feel the game is on its decline (just a hunch).

Rustjive · Jan 09, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Given the number of "I just stopped here posts" and "the Guild Wars is NOT dying" posts, the number of people who made it through the whole thing can't be more than 3. For which I congratulate you.

Reasons like "I see discussions like this all the time and frankly they still amaze me. Ok so a few PvP guilds or teams are trying another game." are not the reasons I enumerated as to why Guild Wars is dying. Nor did I say anywhere that the Guild Wars business model is a failure financially. Look it up! It's really not there!

What I did say, however, is that a 6 month release schedule is bad. A few of you like this - but what it is is something that's unheard of within the game industry. The result is a rushed product - Factions and Nightfall both suffered as a result. A 6 month release schedule is so bad that some of the ArenaNet devs have mentioned that it would be better if it wasn't this way.

But why is it this way? Well, get through the rest of the first post...

To recap:

- Micropayments are: Things you buy from the online store.
- Suggested micropayments: Things you buy from the online store that keep with the tenet of the game - skill over time spent. To a degree, vanity skins become no-nos for suggestions.
- Why micropayments: The Guild Wars business model calls for a 6 month release schedule. This is restrictive and slowly killing Guild Wars. The hope is that increased revenue on the side will let them ease off of this schedule.
- The point of the thread: Post the things that ArenaNet could potentially offer, without bitching and moaning about the things they obviously would not offer (gold, powerful items, items in general, etc.) You're free to disagree with the premise - if you've read through and aren't just disagreeing with something I did not say.

Str0b0 · Jan 09, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdfoot

I haven't given much thought to the ideas (at the end of the post) that OP brought up but this is an interesting read. Micro-payments do seem to be a nice way to help ANet sustain the business; after all, players do have an option to buy or not buy, ANet is also helping to facilitate more options to the game. The business model that ANet is using definitely tends to feel restrictive since they earn a 1 time profit only from sales and they definitely need to balance out on budget, development and other server maintenance neccessities.

Development requires costs to justify and this also relates to server maintenance, etc. Micro-payment looks like another avenue to which ANet can get revenue to support continued efforts instead of just relying on selling the regular chapters. As for whether GW is dying, I simply do not know. But as a GW player, I definitely feel the game is on its decline (just a hunch).

With a six month development cycle they can afford to rely on one time sales profits. They get their initial take from the large boom in release sales and then as the titles experience trickle sales, new players buying the newest release, old players who couldn't get their copy on the release date or who took a wait and see attitude, it gives them more money to sustain maintenance and other aspects of the business. All this micro payment stuff though seems to forget the GuildWars store. It is a sustainable business model and they have already captured a die hard fan base who will buy these things into perpetuity if they make them.

Vinraith · Jan 09, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

The Guild Wars business model is just fine, thanks. This kind of crap, namely paying for features or content that should already be included, is exactly what Bethsoft started doing with Oblivion that drove me off their products for good. I'd hate to see Anet take a similar tack. Fortunately I suspect they have a much better sense of their business model's success than the OP.

The whole "Guild Wars is dying" thing is really starting to get old, seeing as it's been around for about as long as the game. I've never understood it and I still don't. Anet's business model with this game is the best I've ever seen for an online game, others should learn from it.

Str0b0 · Jan 09, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustjive

Given the number of "I just stopped here posts" and "the Guild Wars is NOT dying" posts, the number of people who made it through the whole thing can't be more than 3. For which I congratulate you.

Reasons like "I see discussions like this all the time and frankly they still amaze me. Ok so a few PvP guilds or teams are trying another game." are not the reasons I enumerated as to why Guild Wars is dying. Nor did I say anywhere that the Guild Wars business model is a failure financially. Look it up! It's really not there!

What I did say, however, is that a 6 month release schedule is bad. A few of you like this - but what it is is something that's unheard of within the game industry. The result is a rushed product - Factions and Nightfall both suffered as a result. A 6 month release schedule is so bad that some of the ArenaNet devs have mentioned that it would be better if it wasn't this way.

But why is it this way? Well, get through the rest of the first post...

To recap:

- Micropayments are: Things you buy from the online store.
- Suggested micropayments: Things you buy from the online store that keep with the tenet of the game - skill over time spent. To a degree, vanity skins become no-nos for suggestions.
- Why micropayments: The Guild Wars business model calls for a 6 month release schedule. This is restrictive and slowly killing Guild Wars. The hope is that increased revenue on the side will let them ease off of this schedule.
- The point of the thread: Post the things that ArenaNet could potentially offer, without bitching and moaning about the things they obviously would not offer (gold, powerful items, items in general, etc.) You're free to disagree with the premise - if you've read through and aren't just disagreeing with something I did not say.

No however as evidence of the decline that you seem so dead set on proving you provided your "exodus". If not evidence then at the very least an indicator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustjive

Long story short, Guild Wars as a game is in fairly dire straits. They're not in financial trouble to the best of my knowledge, but in GWP there's been a great movement of players towards WoW - and these are the top PvP players, moving to a game infamous for grind. Too many fun seasons and too few skill balances for a totally out-of-whack metagame is a big reason why this is happening, as is the backlash against 6v6 in HA. However, there are other reasons as to why:

1) Expansions: Guild Wars and its expansions are standalone - but for the PvP community, this doesn't hold true. All skills are balanced against all other skills across expansions, so with Nightfall there was a good deal of power creep in which Prophecies-only players found themselves on the very short end of things. As more expansions come out, and with a staff that doesn't really grow, certain areas of Guild Wars will fall into disrepair. This isn't speculation - there have been rumblings on GWP that certain people working on the project would like for the release schedule to not be every 6 months, a schedule resulting directly from Arena.Net's business model.

How does this affect PvE players? Not so drastically, but while the game itself is standalone, the community is not. Areas in older campaigns become ghost towns, it becomes increasingly less MMO and more 'you, yourself and Alesia'. Obviously Arena Net can't dictate where its community goes, but it stands to reason that the less diluted the community, the better.

And affecting all players is that certain builds are undeniably more effective than others, whether PvP or PvE. Some of these builds may be campaign specific, but more likely than not they're cross-campaign. New players will find it harder and harder to break into the game, and if they choose to, the cost is substantial - in fact, it equates to paying for every month since the initial release of Guild Wars, something much more than in other MMOs.

2) Game updates and staff: Arena Net's staff is fairly stagnant - their teams alternate chapters, and then others work on updates for existing games. However, as the list of 'old' games expands, the resources of the company are stretched thinner and thinner. Hiring is the logical out - but in this regard the business model is a hindrance - you're hiring people for games that no longer make money.

Granted you offered other reasons however, it is sloppy research to take a small segment of the population, in this case GWP, and based on the actions of that segment determine the disposition of the rest of the population. Unless you can conclusively prove that the GWP exodus to WoW represents a valid and diverse cross section of the entire Guild Wars population then you cannot use them as a valid indicator of an exodus. Now we begin to see the point of my post. Your thesis is moot, that being that players are leaving GuildWars in enough numbers to constitute a decline and that the reasons for that decline are the ones you enumerated. So if your thesis is moot then your entire argument is also moot. That is the point of my post. Show me evidence of an exodus and then maybe your position will be more tenable. As it stands now though what you are basically saying is that Anet should institute a micro payment system to fix a problem that can't even be shown to conclusively exist.

Loviatar · Jan 09, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustjive

What I did say, however, is that a 6 month release schedule is bad. A few of you like this - but what it is is something that's unheard of within the game industry. The result is a rushed product - Factions and Nightfall both suffered as a result. A 6 month release schedule is so bad that some of the ArenaNet devs have mentioned that it would be better if it wasn't this way.

.

first give us the devs names and links to their statements

as for rhe rest get your fact right or give it up

1 it is a ONE YEAR DEVELOPMENT ON EACH CHAPTER not six months.

they have the game engine and a huge artwork/animation/SF library to drag and drop instead of starting from the ground up with each chapter.

each chapter gives them more experience and a bigger library to draw on for the next chapter giing more time foe extras

2 they have hired more people to work on each separate chapter than the entire crew that produced that produced chapter one.

3 there is yet a third event team.

4 it was stated from the start by JEFF STRAIN that this new model was unique so thank you for stating the obvious

rushed NF?...............i guess that is why it got high rateings and playerl like it

birdfoot · Jan 09, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

With a six month development cycle they can afford to rely on one time sales profits. They get their initial take from the large boom in release sales and then as the titles experience trickle sales, new players buying the newest release, old players who couldn't get their copy on the release date or who took a wait and see attitude, it gives them more money to sustain maintenance and other aspects of the business. All this micro payment stuff though seems to forget the GuildWars store. It is a sustainable business model and they have already captured a die hard fan base who will buy these things into perpetuity if they make them.

I hope I've not been mistaken for implying that each round of sales do not turn in as profit for ANet. I do in fact feel that sales for each chapter more than breaks even for the company. However, I feel that micro-payment is another channel that helps to fuel ANet additionally. I haven't really touched on what they should sell as I haven't given much thought myself, but they shouldn't be selling new/specialized content on the in-game store as that will upset to ANet's customer base. However, if there are possibile items/features/etc that ANet may find appropriate for selling on the stores and is aligned to their direction for GW, I think it's a good thing.

Whether their business model is a success or not is not something that we (as players) can really comment on. On one hand, we can't rightfully say that their business model is failing; on the other, we can't also prove that it is a success. It's still too early to say and we may never know the real story. A business does not flop overnight unless there's really no thought given upon its attempt, and it's clear this is not the case with ANet. However, no one can rightfully prove that ANet's business model is successful since we don't have actual numbers to decide (and how many years down the road are we talking about?); on the other hand, if the business model is indeed showing signs of failing, no ANet employee would be sane enough to come forth and tell everyone. Hence, I'd suggest not taking opinions stated by players on touchy issues such as business model too seriously; in-game experience is more valid imo.

Anyway, I'd rather see ANet's business model work since I hold a strong belief that it will impact the future MMOs to come. I feel that GW being what it is today is impacted by how much ANet is able to do (within the budget that is), and sometimes I wonder that if ANet had more revenue to provide for better development/equipment, would GW be a much better game than it is now. GW is already a good game but it also needs to scale up along the way to meet its competitors. After all, ideas can always be copied by another game company; continuous innovation may be the key to ANet's success and this requires $$$. As for the 6-months release cycle, I think it's fine as long as ANet deems that the window period more than allows for innovating the game; although I don't mind if they need to take longer than that.

Str0b0 · Jan 09, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Granted, micropayments are an option however I don't see how much more they could offer. As you said offering special, or exclusive purchasable content will upset players who don't use the store. What they have in place, PvP unlock packs and extra slots is honestly the best they can do in my opinion. Anything more than that will unbalance the game. I still see no conclusive evidence of a decline as posited by the OP and even if there were I'm not sure what micro payments will do to prevent said decline.

Ninna · Jan 09, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustjive

a 6 month release schedule is bad. A few of you like this - but what it is is something that's unheard of within the game industry.

unheard of? according to who? you?

SOE does rapid expansions too
- Everquest had 2 expansions last year
- Everquest2 also had 2 expansions last year

Jormund · Jan 09, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

rushed NF?...............i guess that is why it got high rateings and playerl like it

Oh? I trust you're enjoying the elite missions in the Realm of Madness; if you recall correctly though, those weren't even finished when NF was released. Think about that, the elite missions intended for Nightfall were not done when the game was released because there wasn't enough time.

Sure, Nightfall did have a lot of content and game (some pretty cool stuff to) when the release date came up, but the fact that they weren't able to get *everything* they wanted done at release should be quite telling that they didn't have enough time.

DoctorEvil · Jan 09, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdfoot

Whether their business model is a success or not is not something that we (as players) can really comment on. On one hand, we can't rightfully say that their business model is failing; on the other, we can't also prove that it is a success. It's still too early to say and we may never know the real story. A business does not flop overnight unless there's really no thought given upon its attempt, and it's clear this is not the case with ANet. However, no one can rightfully prove that ANet's business model is successful since we don't have actual numbers to decide (and how many years down the road are we talking about?); on the other hand, if the business model is indeed showing signs of failing, no ANet employee would be sane enough to come forth and tell everyone. Hence, I'd suggest not taking opinions stated by players on touchy issues such as business model too seriously; in-game experience is more valid imo.

You took the words right out of my mouth

Only A-Net insiders know how well or how poorly the GW business model is working. We has players only have our opinions without many business facts to back them up.

That being said, I think the whole idea of micropayments is a great idea. Whether or not the GW business model is failing, I'm surprised that A-Net hasn't moved on this idea more quickly, if for no other reason than to make some incremental profits off the game. The extra slots and collector edition bonus items are a start down this road, but as described above, it could be a lot more. Players have shown that they'll pay cash for vanity type items, and more would better.